Monday, February 26, 2007
Marines pour scorn on Army commandos By Thomas Harding,Daily Telegraph
A battle has broken out over the role of the first Army commando unit to be formed since the Second World War, with the Royal Marines claiming that the infantry lack "the suitable calibre" to join their force.
While the Marines believe they are doing the Army a good turn by saving an infantry battalion from cuts, senior soldiers have said that they are bringing the under-manned commandos up to full brigade strength. The new unit will be formed when two infantry regiments are amalgamated next year to become 1 Bn The Rifles.
Soldiers from the Devon and Dorsets and the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Light Infantry are already conducting extra physical training in preparation to become part of the Royal Marines tough 3 Commando Brigade, which at its core has three formations of about 550 men each.
The battalion's officers and men have been unable to hide their excitement at joining the commando brigade but they will be disappointed at the role the Marines have proposed for them.
Under plans seen by The Daily Telegraph, the wartime role of 1 Rifles will be to protect rear head quarters and supply depots and guard prisoners of war. At best they will be allowed to defend a port or oil refinery after it has been stormed by Marines in helicopters or assault landing craft.
"There is the option of them coming across as fully fledged commandos with the same kind of equipment and training as us," a senior Marine officer said.
"But it's a non-starter as the Army don't have the right calibre of people to do that and we don't have the capacity or space to train a battalion of 600 men."
The Army formation will also be used as 3 Commando's "roulement" battalion, fulfilling its slots of mundane six month tours in less popular operations such as Kosovo, Northern Ireland or Iraq while the Marines unit would be kept in high readiness for specialised operations. "What we have at the moment is a highly capable organisation being essentially out of the picture for almost 12 months used on these tours," the senior Marine officer said.
"We want to keep the three commando units for what they are there are best at - as an expeditionary force that can also support special forces."
While the Marines believe it is "not an option" for the soldiers to become a fully fledged commando unit, senior Army sources have indicated that, although in the short term 1 Rifles will take a back seat role, within three or four years they will be fully commando trained and equipped.
"Our view is to get stuck in and become commandos but the Navy seem to have rather backward approach where they see them as poor second cousins who will free up the commandos to go off and do special operations," an Army source said.
A source from an infantry unit criticised the Marines' attitude towards their potential new commando colleagues.
"What they are proposing, essentially giving us rear security, would be intolerable," he said.
"No commanding officer of a battalion of line infantry, having served in Afghanistan and Iraq, would accept that under any circumstances.
"I also find it amazing that they think raw recruits from the Royal Marines would be of a higher calibre than a soldier who has completed three or four very tough operational tours."
The new unit will come under Royal Navy command but will be paid for by the Army.
Scipio says-The Marine senior officers need to wind their necks in and take their heads out of their arses!-To say that a line infantry battalion is only capable of doing rear security duties and is not capable of front line duty with the so called "Elite" Royal Marines is not only extremely insulting to EVERY line regiment in the British Army but also unbelievably naive and arrogant!-What is the prime function of an infantry battalion?-To fight the enemy and,call me old fashioned,but I believe they've done it quite well thank you over the last TWO hundred years without the help of the Royal Marines,who I believe am right in saying,weren't even the first commandos,it was the British Army commandos,who were formed from men taken from LINE regiments who forged the reputation that they currently bask under today!-The first Battalion the Rifles has a huge amount of operational experience and is just as professional and BATTLE HARDENED as the Marines it will be serving with-To the Marines I say-Give the lads some credit and LET THEM DO THEIR JOB-THEY'RE VERY GOOD AT IT!
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Well said!-The Royal Marines have been gobbing off for years about their "Alledged" special forces status,can't say,having been on ops with them,I've ever seen anything that "Special" about them!-With EVERY line battalion having done AT LEAST two tours in Iraq and most about to serve in Afghanistan as well the combat experiance of ALL the battalions in the British Army is vast and NO one unit has the right to claim "Special" status,except perhaps the SAS/SBS whose role is intirely different.An Infantry battalion's role,by definition,is to close with and kill the enemy.1 Rifles has been formed from two very good regiments with a glorious history.Instead of slagging them down the Marines should be saying "Thanks for the help"!
# posted by 
: 11:58 PM
: 11:58 PM
Thanks for your help!
The Royal Marines (and indeed the Paras) are Theatre Entry Troops, and yes this does make them specialist. The Royal Marines were amongst the first Commandos, when the call went out from Churchill to form 'Butcher & Bolt' units. However In 1942, the nine Royal Marines Infantry Battalions were reorganised as Commandos, numbered from 40 to 48. The Royal Marines Commandos, unlike the Army Commandos, were retained after the end of the war. In context after the War the Army turned its back on the Commandos; today with the Army disbanding and amalgamating Regts, the Naval service has offered a lifeline, once again.
The Royal Marines (and indeed the Paras) are Theatre Entry Troops, and yes this does make them specialist. The Royal Marines were amongst the first Commandos, when the call went out from Churchill to form 'Butcher & Bolt' units. However In 1942, the nine Royal Marines Infantry Battalions were reorganised as Commandos, numbered from 40 to 48. The Royal Marines Commandos, unlike the Army Commandos, were retained after the end of the war. In context after the War the Army turned its back on the Commandos; today with the Army disbanding and amalgamating Regts, the Naval service has offered a lifeline, once again.
# posted by : 11:13 AM
: 11:13 AM
GIRLS.............(Scipio)
Get a life There is a humongous difference between a Rifle man and a Royal Marine. We all have a job to do there is no doubt. But do you think we go though all that grief and training to end up wet nursing a load of pongos? Which I would not want (up my rear)
Dream on ex RM
Get a life There is a humongous difference between a Rifle man and a Royal Marine. We all have a job to do there is no doubt. But do you think we go though all that grief and training to end up wet nursing a load of pongos? Which I would not want (up my rear)
Dream on ex RM
# posted by : 10:40 PM
: 10:40 PM
having worked with the apparently brilliant "Comacchio Group" on Tesex - they were a complete bag of sh|t despite them telling us at the start of the day "don't worry lad's - if there is any kit you lot [Riflemen] can't carry then give it to us - it's our Bread and Butter!" - needless to say - our lads jsut asked for more ammo to carry themselves just as a show of strength to the Marines.
anyhow, they got lost on the advance to contact, got ambushed en-route too and then at H-Hour before the assault on Copehill Down - they wouldn't answer their radios so we went to their location to see why and they were all too busy sorting their feet out! they had to follow us into the battle as the reserve platoon and even then they got wasted because their section level tactics were non-existent and they couldn't keep up with the rate of advance of the Riflemen.
Tossers.
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anyhow, they got lost on the advance to contact, got ambushed en-route too and then at H-Hour before the assault on Copehill Down - they wouldn't answer their radios so we went to their location to see why and they were all too busy sorting their feet out! they had to follow us into the battle as the reserve platoon and even then they got wasted because their section level tactics were non-existent and they couldn't keep up with the rate of advance of the Riflemen.
Tossers.
# posted by : 1:51 PM
: 1:51 PM << Home
